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Post by Sediba on Jun 6, 2019 10:47:00 GMT 10
When I was a child The Atom was known to be the smallest thing in existence ... then somebody (Thompson?) broke a bit off and found the electron. What was left was the nucleus and it was found to contain protons. So electrons and protons became the smallest things in existence. But then we discovered the the proton is a huge garbage-bin of smaller particles that, in their interactions, give the 'wholesome' appearance of a proton. In fact, the proton is made of quarks and gluons .. and the number of them in a proton depends on it's motion. The greater it's motion, the more virtual quarks and gluons materialise. In just a few thousand generations we've gone from understanding stone tools to unwrapping and examining in detail the Fundamental Substance. The pebble in the picture has never been worked by human hands, it was formed naturally and by coincidence bears the markings of a human face. It is not a manufactured object. It was found in a cave besides the bones of Africanus. This itself is an amazing coincidence because Africanus, a particularly ugly human, is responsible, through a process known as clandestine evolution, for our 'beauty' today, as in super models, Warren Beattys, Brad Pitts and Samantha Foxs. All of our love for ourselves comes from a DNA mutation in Africanus that saved them from extinction for long enough to leave us the inheritance of beauty, of appreciation, of great love. True Next time you're checking yourself out in the mirror, remember this. We're so vain, we think all songs are about us. ________________________________________________ WIKI: 'The Makapansgat pebble cannot be seen as art if a usual definition of the term is used, as the object was found and not made. Nevertheless that an Australopithecus may have recognized a face would reveal that the early hominid had some sort of capacity for symbolic thinking, necessary for the development of art and language. If the early hominid has seen this object really as a face, or had magical speculations towards this object or just enjoyed the pebble remains unclear.' _____________________________________________ So three million years ago someone picked up a pebble and looked into it, trying to understand, held onto it, carried it with them .... and three million years later that understanding has accumulated and resulted in this picture of the frantic activity inside a proton. In order to appreciate the size of a quark, the size of a gluon, which make up protons, which make up atoms, which make up molecules ... then this: A molecule is a huge object compared to a quark, millions of times more massive .. yet .. there are more molecules in a glass of water than there are glasses of water in all the oceans together. True. People, Us, We ... are amazing. Never doubt, when things look darkest, that we're incapable of change, of understanding. Put all politics aside and Vote for action on climate change. .
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Post by madametarot on Jun 6, 2019 11:27:24 GMT 10
Little things have little things upon their backs to bite them littler things have littler things and so on, ad infinitum!
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Post by Sediba on Jun 6, 2019 15:38:31 GMT 10
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Post by madametarot on Jun 6, 2019 17:25:47 GMT 10
600,000 tons of aircraft fuel per day, add this that and the uvver and the numbers become meaninglessly big. There is no real plan.
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Post by Sediba on Jun 6, 2019 22:27:05 GMT 10
600,000 tons of aircraft fuel per day, add this that and the uvver and the numbers become meaninglessly big. There is no real plan. I think what you’re trying to say is that there is no political will to follow the plan. The plan is real, it’s 2000 pages long with a 40 page summary for policy makers. The real plan exists and you can read it. But I guess you don’t have that will, it much easier to be dismissive. All that requires is a no-brainer effort, compared to reading and comprehension of really really big words. Surpasses your fog index?
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Post by Pedro on Jun 7, 2019 6:26:52 GMT 10
60 years ago there were NOT Environmental Problems that were worth discussing! Yes I do know that there were/are 100 of millions of people that love discussing/arguing on...ANY & THINGS! Pedro is wondering IF (by ANY chance!), the causes of MOST of TODAY Environmental Problems are DIRECTLY caused by the extra 3 billion of "human rats" ? If that IS the REAL & ROOT cause, it is/ would be useless arguing on...ANY & THINGS/SOLUTION. There is NO FEASIBLE solution to the PROBLEM!
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Post by tute on Jun 7, 2019 8:52:03 GMT 10
Humans survive from -50 to +40 C but a 3 degree rise will wipe us out. FFS
Its exponential alright; in total blatant, arrant, brazen, barefaced lunacy.
Within Australia the economy is collapsing. No power, no water, no oil, no gas, no business’s and f,all employment. You could not write a piece of fiction and describe what we are doing to ourselves. The electoral choices we are given for stable sane constituents from both sides of the political spectrum have become a suicidal selection.
In desperation to stir the economy the Reserve Bank has set the cash rate at 1.25%. A comfortable normal is 4%. below 1% and the banana will become Australia’s new dollar symbol. Under this current bunch of dimwits and failure the future is indeed sorrowful, for we can only get even BIGGER government. More regulations. and more “workers” pushing paper and making NOTHING. Its a good Plan alright Sed....? My arrsse! Poetic Justice: Those that meekly follow the green tripe will be the first to (exponentially) suffer. History shows us that those lurking behind socialistic stupidity are renown for terminating the causes of their own folly first.
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Post by Pedro on Jun 7, 2019 10:07:48 GMT 10
There is NO doubt in MY/OUR mind: Exponential growth is exhibited when the rate of change—the change per instant or unit of time—of the value of a mathematical function of time is proportional to the function's current value, resulting in its value at any time being an exponential function of time, i.e., a function in which the time value is the exponent. Exponential decay occurs in the same way when the growth rate is negative. In the case of a discrete domain of definition with equal intervals, it is also called geometric growth or geometric decay, the function values forming a geometric progression. In either exponential growth or exponential decay, the ratio of the rate of change of the quantity to its current size remains constant over time. Thanks ALL OUR private Gods!! ONE problem has been solved!! NOW, let US consider what to do/how to deal with the EXTRA 4 billions of "people" and THEIR EVER INCREASING NUMBERS, DAMAGE to the ENVIRONMENT & OUR IMMEDIATE/FUTURE NEEDS! ANY suggestions/ideas/Plans? I understand the OLD PLAN: Let US arm OURSELVES and let/force...Some & Body & Else to GO & FIGHT!!
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Post by Sediba on Jun 7, 2019 10:23:56 GMT 10
Venus was a planet just like ours. A little smaller, a little closer to the Sun.
This caused it to slowly warm and trap gases in it’s atmosphere. The temperature increased exponentially till it reached a critical non-reversible point. Everything on the planet boiled. It’s known by the Russians as the planet from hell. They were the first to reach it.
Today the temp on Venus is so high that Titanium falls as snow.
It doesn’t matter anymore who or what is causing green house gases on our planet. We need to reverse it. We have the technology to reverse it. We can easily support the xtra-billions of people.
The plan I have posted will halt the buildup of green house gases, and slowly reduce them.
It doesn’t mean no airlines can fly, nor people can’t be fed. It means we have to change the way we do things. We have to share our excesses. We have to stop stripping forests. We have to reduce our energy consumption.
It can be fixed.
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Post by Sediba on Jun 7, 2019 10:40:02 GMT 10
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Post by madametarot on Jun 7, 2019 10:52:06 GMT 10
600,000 tons of aircraft fuel per day, add this that and the uvver and the numbers become meaninglessly big. There is no real plan. I think what you’re trying to say is that there is no political will to follow the plan. The plan is real, it’s 2000 pages long with a 40 page summary for policy makers. The real plan exists and you can read it. But I guess you don’t have that will, it much easier to be dismissive. All that requires is a no-brainer effort, compared to reading and comprehension of really really big words. Surpasses your fog index? A real plan is one that has a chance of solving an issue - a fanciful plan is not a real plan, and just a pretend.
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Post by Sediba on Jun 7, 2019 10:54:29 GMT 10
BHP has stated publicly that it will not investing in coal mining. Not because it’s a big-hearted eco friendly mining giant, but because it believes fossil fuels are a bad investment. More ....
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Post by Sediba on Jun 7, 2019 10:59:57 GMT 10
A real plan is one that has a chance of solving an issue - a fanciful plan is not a real plan, and just a pretend. A plan is a plan you dimwit, like a map is a map. Whether it’s implemented or not, whether it will work or not ... that’s the reality. Once again your 118 years as an environment minister, duly accredited with medals, has led you to mistake the map for the territory. 😛
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Post by cster on Jun 7, 2019 12:44:43 GMT 10
Climate Change is slight and continuous, presently we are on the down. The earths heart beat, shown through deep ice cores and sediments far below, shows that we are following an expected trend. What we do here on the surface of the earth either Ameliorates or Exacerbates the weather that follows the climate.
The simplest way to test the effect of carbon for real is to Park the city in the sky for a decade or so and then report on the results. Let the rich set the pace for change if there is any worth to the map.
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Post by Sediba on Jun 7, 2019 17:04:22 GMT 10
Climate Change is slight and continuous, presently we are on the down. The earths heart beat, shown through deep ice cores and sediments far below, shows that we are following an expected trend. What we do here on the surface of the earth either Ameliorates or Exacerbates the weather that follows the climate. The simplest way to test the effect of carbon for real is to Park the city in the sky for a decade or so and then report on the results. Let the rich set the pace for change if there is any worth to the map. Did you read the reports?
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Post by cster on Jun 7, 2019 20:57:03 GMT 10
2000 pages of reports in that short time this thread has been running? No my good man I cant speed read.
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Post by Sediba on Jun 9, 2019 21:31:45 GMT 10
Let me pre-digest it for you, and just leave you with the summary.
We must work towards the following united goals if we wish to turn around global warming before it goes critical. No ‘ifs or buts’
1. End poverty 2. Zero Hunger 3. Good health and well being 4. Quality education 5. Gender equality 6. Clean water and sanitation 7. Affordable energy 8. Employment and economic growth 9. Industry innovation and infrastructure 10. Reduced inequalities 11. Sustainable cities and communities 12. Responsible consumption and production 13. Climate action 14. Life below waters 15. Life on land 16. Peace, Justice and strengthened institutions 17. Partnerships between Nations and Business to reach the above goals.
None of these are impossible, nearly all can be easily achieved ... considering that if we don’t achieve them then we face a nuclear wasteland and mass extinction by 2050 (climate science predictions)
What we, as citizens, need to do is put aside political differences and vote for leaders that will act on this agenda, regardless if they tax you to do it. We as people of a single species need to put aside personal agendas and act for the good of all. (Something religions claim to do as their prerogative, and something they have eternally failed to do)
Remember this, China is on our side.
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Post by cster on Jun 10, 2019 6:18:47 GMT 10
OK just looking at the list as you posted it is far easier than all the opening and reading of those somewhat indigestible phrases used in those papers. One finds it odd that 8,9,11,12 all appear to be Climate Villains responsible for 13. Yet all in the list, which also appears somewhat jumbled in the priority.
What we as Citizens need to do I suppose is find a Leader worth voting for.
Yes I agree with you on Religion, all they have done in essence is focus on their particular industry and profit and equity.
I remember reading articles on this stuff ages ago and they steadily became almost indigestible and Jargon intense. Fixated on their version of things. I recall back in the day a graph used by the white coats to show the correlation between the ice cores and the Deep Silt Cores, how they were depicted over Millennia and at that level the graph looked like a ECG chart. That one became the heartbeat of the earth graph. That one shows us on a down for the next thousand years and that will be followed by a big up and then a slow decrease to the next Iceage in about 12 to 15 Thousand years. We might want our coal for then.
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Post by Pedro on Jun 10, 2019 7:18:07 GMT 10
IT would be possible/feasible to convince 2/3 billions people!!! 6 or 7 bilions!?!?? By the time you conviced 6 billions....there will be another EXTRA 3 billions to...convince! I do recall 3 Science Fiction Movies of the 1960...there were PROBLEMS to convince the persons/actors....IN the MOVIES!!
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Post by Sediba on Jun 10, 2019 17:21:10 GMT 10
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Post by cster on Jun 10, 2019 17:59:51 GMT 10
Yes I can imagine the money that denies climate change today is the same money that stopped giving out grants way back in the seventies when the fuel crises set in. Vengeance is a right bitch for the white coats that started the punishment with their we're creating the next ice age, may have stumbled on to a truth. Humans do force change on our weather systems by changing the landscape. Not to mention human induced pollution. But where are we to go with this now politicised subject? Whom do we believe, if we cant do logical things first like stop planes the trillions burnt in the sky will produce a change. Next something else equally as damaging by a few not the whole as turning coal fired power stations off. We could stop the V8 race cars, no problems there.
So far the solutions are all technical rather than based on the hydrological cycle and the carbon return profile of it should be in the soil not the air? In the air it is at least fuel for anything green.
The big three fuel co's ( Coal Oil Gas) deserve a serve but at least start with the top end and ditch aircraft.
The Northern Hemisphere is the area going to cop it big time, we here in the south appear to be down for snow on the great divide year round and serious frosts for all but the summer heatwaves. We here who produce just a point 1.3% of what the world produces should not be driven back into the Bamboo bicycle for the over crowded European nations Christ Australia took heaps of them after the war. Lost our Sovereignty in the process and now are stuck with multi culturalism. Damage is large by far from the North.
Sorry but I don't see climate change as a bad thing its natural and only exacerbated by human effort and stupidity when it comes to weather. The Lumberjack has more to account for the damage done than we are prepared to say.
Now that it's political it cant be trusted.
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Post by tute on Jun 14, 2019 8:09:24 GMT 10
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Post by madametarot on Jun 14, 2019 9:15:48 GMT 10
Climate change is real - good or bad is a point of view.
The planet earth "air" started with no oxygen but lots of CO2 (carbon dioxide) which the first life started to convert to O2 (Oxygen)as basic veg does.
So without climate change we aint here = a plus for climate change.
But we is now 'ere.
The whole deal is designed to run its course then fizzle out. It is like the rest of life we are just passing through.
As for the gaseous layers, as I understand it, it is like a giant CENTRIFUGE they move out until they reach equilibrium (gravity = centrifugal force).
My knowledge does not extend to how the layers can be post mixed, OZONE tho is O3 so any ozone spinning out could be lost oxygen.
On some of these issues Google is not helpful because of RATBAG science posts.
If God had meant us to do retro gas mixing he would have given us a GAS WHISTLE (like a dog whistle that only gases can hear)
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Post by Forti on Jun 14, 2019 10:53:33 GMT 10
Gravity = Centripetal force, it's drawn into a central point.
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Post by tute on Jun 14, 2019 14:55:31 GMT 10
Greg...Do you recall many moons ago Tute making mention of folk that should be exposed to an empty class room indicator. The press reports almost ad nauseam, to an empty class room. They rabbit on over issues of air pollution, and speak profusely on dangers of coal and the big crusade that is being championed and campaigned by New Left activists and other such arbiters of virtue. And just as peace has never been among the Lefts goals or motives on any past crusades, clean air is certainly not their goals or motives with Anthropocentric Global Warfare nonsense. You ask why can we not see your obvious truths... Strewth....I could not begin to count the ways. For every undeniable truth that backs your rrationale I can find two equally compelling experts, complete with graphs and numbers that willingly dispute what ever your findings. Closer to home, The expert Flannery preached for yonks the doom about to befall us; Sydney would be under water within five years .... other dreamboats crawled out from under the woodwork making predictions about disappearing ice caps. Every god forsaken flim flam merchant that plied his trade between the two poles almost simultaneously climbed on to the backs of the gullible, pre primed and readily available wood ducks. Nowadays folk are slowly becoming aware of the shenanigans of the fake news brigade, those despicable harbingers of carefully contrived nonsense that only serves to further assist the repertoire of the flim flam men. Be it a he/she/they from the left, the centre, or of the right. In my humble observations Flim flam merchants make upwards of 50% of all those leaders in the world of Commerce or Governments, industrialists, business folk (big and small). Civil Servants of all persuasions, and politicians, the latter of whom possess an almost 100% hit rate for being double dealers. Collectively they are only too willing to the of taking of lesser folk in society to the cleaners, they knowingly will also turn their backs on their peers and their colleagues. Have another peek at WOTS NOT, then take a breather Sed. As to Cols 20% of 100% of C02 ….with the remaining 80% being left to re-accumulate. Its a non event… the f’all of fact or maths, for there is no final equation to be derived from those units of unspecified value. So tell us Col what the 100% of C02 is/was to begin with so as we can then do some worthwhile sums. Otherwise the numbers are mere pie in your environmental sky. As is so for all the fellow followers of any such extensions to that diabolical of flim flams. A quick note to … hmmmm, the drama surrounding trees, fish, animal extinctions etc. For some reason, folk only take on board a tally being told and toted in the one direction. This world can be backwards, I do agree…. But its not entirely stoopid. According to NASA and other monitoring agencies the green is increasing, not decreasing. Other authorities will tell us the fish stocks are balanced (where possible) by the efforts of marine biologists and quota systems. The animals are also similarly given the utmost of charity; where ever such courtesy can be extended.
If there are anomalies in the system then so be it. Nature has been known to throw up the odd deviant aberration occasionally. Proboard site inhabitants are not barren of such possibilities.
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Post by madametarot on Jun 14, 2019 19:06:04 GMT 10
Thanks Tute that is my point the % are a sham. If my understanding is correct then everything that ends up in another gas layer is lost for conversion to air, because it is out of reach for the trees and etc. to convert.
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Post by Pedro on Jun 15, 2019 5:59:56 GMT 10
IF 4 billion of the 7 billions "persons" attached/welded/shared their intellectual power together, they will form a Single & Powerful Multi Spinning Powerful Entity!! IF the 4 billion persons formed/divided in 6 groups...AND could/will climb ON each other shoulders!! The 4 groups could, easily, reach the Higher Layer of gases and...Force Them DOWN....within reach of trees and etc. and etc. to convert IT/THEM to....!
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Post by madametarot on Jun 15, 2019 11:07:41 GMT 10
IF 4 billion of the 7 billions "persons" attached/welded/shared their intellectual power together, they will form a Single & Powerful Multi Spinning Powerful Entity!! IF the 4 billion persons formed/divided in 6 groups...AND could/will climb ON each other shoulders!! The 4 groups could, easily, reach the Higher Layer of gases and...Force Them DOWN....within reach of trees and etc. and etc. to convert IT/THEM to....! The collective intelligence of feral bees in OZ has not been enough, and now they being wiped out. Do we need to bee smarter than the bees.
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Post by Forti on Jun 15, 2019 18:05:58 GMT 10
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Post by tute on Jun 16, 2019 11:29:56 GMT 10
Yes Cster...... a good article. Some common sense break thru at last, but this approach is still of no value. The idiot element remains at large.
Read my lips again......THERE IS NO SOLUTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE BY CHASING RAINBOWS.\
There is no climate change.... a 1 degree rise since 1880 is not a catastrophe. No matter how you present the graph.
Phhucck me....what about those useless phucckking windmills.
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